Someone asked me recently about the call to the ministry. I know some people don't think there is a call but for many years it has seemed to me that there are three essential elements. 1. Strong desire (the call). Without that you'll give up when you find out what it's really all about. 2. Certain skills - this is hard to assess sometimes but obviously you must be able to preach and teach and pastor. Training can help. 3. Opportunity - Your home church needs to be sure you are called (they can be wrong, of course and that makes for difficulties) and finally you need a church to call you to pastor them (they too could be wrong, of course, nothing is infallible in this life). Without that last bit you obviously never were called.
This may seem a little simplistic but I think it fits the biblical pattern.
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7 comments:
Is that all, Gary? I grant that those three are necessary, but are they sufficient? The weakness seems to me to be that 'a call' implies 'someone calling' - in this case, of course, 'Someone'. Your definition as it stands would be closer to a definition of 'opportunity': the inception (a desire), the confirmation (an ability) and the realisation (appointment).
Or, to put it another way, you're close to saying there is no call to the ministry - for all of these things would be necessary in order to be, for example, an accountant. Don't you think?
I think you're going to need to go into it a little bit more for it to be clear what you mean, unless you are purely saying that all you need to have is a strong desire and skills?
Is that Rhodri speaking to his Dad, Gary speaking to me, or Rhodri speaking to me?
Hmm; I see Gary Br is at Carey; let me assume then that the comment under Rhodri's name is nevertheless from Gary and try to comment.
I'm saying that the three elements you mention - strong desire, some ability, and an eventual call to a church - are absolutely necessary. I'm querying whether they are enough.
Consider: if 'the need were the call' then every competent (male) school teacher who is invited to 'preach with a view' or 'become our pastor' would not have to ask: am I called. He wouldn't even have to ask 'Do I want this' - that would be irrelevant, and I knwo that you're not suggesting this, GBr.
But if ALL that constituted a call was desire + ability + opportunity, then that same competent teacher would be 'called' if he had a strong desire. I'm trying to suggest that there is still more to it than this.
It may be a 'woe is me if I do not preach the gospel'. It may, perhaps, be more subtle than that.
Nonetheless at some point the brother has to say: 'I would like to do this very much; I seem to have the ability to do this; such and such a particular church would like me to do this with them. BUT ALSO I am persuaded - I know not how - that God is calling me to this.'
I'm aware we reformed men (I still qualify, GBr?) are in some difficulty here sometimes because we do not want to sound like charismatics. But the truth is - on this point at least - it is THEY who sound like US - at least, like our historic Reformed forebears.
GBe, I'm not necessarily disagreeing but what is the biblical basis for that?
I think GBr's point is that if we're strongly desiring to serve God in a particular way then that is a good desire which has been given by God. If God has also given the skills and the opportunity then he is persuaded that God is calling him to it.
Does that sound sound?
Sorry for doing that post then scurrying off. Great to get feedback though. It's not until coming home that I've seen it.(BTW GBe it was 'Rhodri2me' not 'me2U'). I've confessed the danger of simplism and I'm sure desire not to be charismatic drives me - but may be rightly. The call to the ministry is not just like Jeremiah's though there may be analogies. God speaks today by the Bible and providence. I think accountancy is a calling too and reject the minister, nurse, teacher hierarchy, but clearly the call to preach is in a different category when it comes to impact. GBe says a minister should also say "I am persuaded - I know not how - that God is calling me to this." That is a mystical approach and the thing that the anti-call people hate most. I don't think I'm with them but I don't seem to be in the traditional camp either. May be I'm doing giving desire adouble meaning. GBe, can we define this final element?
Thanks for the respons; I hope to get back on this, Gary, but am recovering from flu-like. Should have gone to Carey; maybe I wouldn't have picked it up then.
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